Going Deep With Luke Hemmings On Songwriting And New Music

Three years after his critically acclaimed debut solo album, When Facing The Things We Turn Away From, 5 Seconds of Summer frontman Luke Hemmings has announced a new EP, Boy, out April 26.

Reteaming with producer Sammy Witte, Hemmings has again beautifully tapped into his singer/songwriter side. On the stunning first track, “Shakes,” released yesterday, Hemmings adeptly and masterfully taps into his vulnerability.

As I found in an incredible Zoom conversation with Hemmings, that vulnerability dates back to his early days with 5SOS. “I definitely feel like because of the unique teenage years I had there are a lot of unresolved feelings in them,” he says of his solo songs. “I think this is the way to figure it out for me, to write about it. I think there’s probably a sense of trying to protect someone that you can’t protect anymore.”

I spoke with Hemmings about the joy he finds in doing both solo and 5SOS stuff, his admiration for the late great Chris Cornell, his early success and much more, including a deep dive into songwriting.

Steve Baltin: I love the new song. Congratulations on it. Was there one song early on that really started the idea of doing an EP?

Luke Hemmings: The last one on the EP “Promises.” Usually, especially with solo stuff, I go in tentatively at the very beginning. I’m always like, “Let’s see what happens. Let’s go in.” I already had the first album with Sammy [Witte]. So, I knew we could make great music together. But I was like, “What’s it going to be?” The first album was such extenuating circumstances of being at home and almost being forced to write. Then it snowballed into that first album. It was so introspective and reflective. I sort of had to write it for fear of losing my mind, like, “We’re all in a bit of a weird spot.” So, going into this one, I was like, “Okay, I know kind of where I want to take the sound. But was this a one-time thing? Am I going to write stuff that I am emotionally attached to as much as that first album because it was such a weird time.” “Promises,” I was writing a lot with a drum kit set up. It started with this older English beat. It had this droning beat that I had and the whole song came from that. It had this super melancholy, nostalgic thing to it. I was like, “Okay, this is actually a pretty cool sound.” It was leaning to The Verve and Beach House, somewhere in there. I was like, “This is a really cool sound.” Everything built from there. Then “Shakes” was second.

Baltin: A lot of artists will talk about the fact that it takes them a while to process what they were writing about. Can you look back at the first solo album and understand things more clearly than maybe you did when writing the record?

Hemmings: It certainly does. I have to write down proper notes for this new EP, like, “This is what it was about.” Otherwise, I’ll ramble on and not exactly know what to anchor on to. Most of the time as you’re writing, for this type of songwriting, it’s not like, “This happened, and this happened, and this happened.” It’s just noise and feeling at a certain point. Then it molds into a story. Then you’re right, it takes a long time and having to talk about it forces you to be like, “Okay, what was this about?” So, I think the first album feels old to me now. It’s crazy. It’s only been a couple of years. It really sums up that period. There are things I’ve learned since. But, that first album, I’ve talked about it so much. There are phrases and stuff that popped out to me, I’m like, “Okay, that was a cool phrase. I didn’t realize I was saying that.” At the time of writing stuff, you feel like you know everything. You feel like, “I know what this is about. And I know what I’m about.” Then you look back and go, “Oh, geez, they didn’t know anything.” I think that’s going to keep happening forever and ever until we die. But yeah, definitely songs take on new meanings. And I think especially when you start playing them live and they mean something to other people. They mean something different to someone that listens to it.

Baltin: Good writing in general is subconscious. I’ve talked about this with so many songwriters, who say that it’s like you have an antenna up, you get these messages and you run with them.

Hemmings: That’s definitely true. I’m pretty fascinated with other songwriters and how they work, so I feel comforted knowing that that is a normal thing. “Shakes” chords came the first day in New York. We had “Promises” that I’d written at home and in L.A. and stuff. Then we went to New York, we’re like, “All right we got this.” We got like a bed of stuff and the first day it was a “Shakes” chorus. Then it took me nine months to finish the rest of it. Just being like, “It’s not good enough. I don’t know where to take this.” It’s an infuriating way to write, where it’s like you write this part and then you wait months to get the next part. A lot of it was putting together these things and coming back to it. The whole feeling of this EP was written in transit, like hotels and planes and bits and pieces from everywhere. Now the songs and the creative all reflect the way it was written, which I think is super cool. So many of the songs had a verse. Then I wouldn’t write the next part for months, which is so irritating, but it just wasn’t right.

Baltin: Who would be the one songwriter that you would want to sit down and just ask them about things?

Hemmings: Oh geez, there are the obvious answers, like John Lennon and people like that. At the moment I’d probably pick Damon Albarn from Gorillaz and Blur. I think that would be a cool one to pick his brain because he has been tapped into something for so many years. That’d be interesting to see how his songwriting comes to him because he seems to write sometimes in a similar way to me. It can be nonsensical at first and then it becomes a story after. So I would find that interesting to see what he does.

Baltin: Are there things that, at the time, seemed nonsensical to you and then you went back and realized they made perfect sense?

Hemmings: Yeah, I think a lot of the ones on this EP. Even if it’s taken me a minute and at the time I didn’t really know what I was writing about. Like I said the noise and feeling just felt good. A song like “Repeat” on the first album, you’re figuring out as it as it comes. That’s one where it sort of fell out. You’re tapping into this inner child and talking about being very young, but the feelings that you’ve shut out. I have a lot of songs where things bubble to the surface from youth, teen, teenage years, where you’re like, “Okay, this is probably how I felt about it, but didn’t really know how to describe it when you’re 17.” But hindsight’s 20/20, or whatever they say.

Baltin: This is the way I always describe it. When you’re a kid, you’re very attached to your parents and where you grow up. Then in your teenage years you try and separate from them and form your own identity. Then as you get older you realize the influence that your parents and where you grew up had and you tap back into that. Do you feel like as you’ve gotten older you are tapping more into the teenage stuff?

Hemmings: Yeah, that’s a good way to describe it. I think you’re right. Most people sort of, like you said, try and make their own identity in their teenage years and they realize, “Oh, maybe you want to get back to your roots, get back to Australia, get back to where you grew up and all of that stuff.” I definitely feel like because of the unique teenage years I had there are a lot of unresolved feelings in them. I think this is the way to figure it out for me, to write about it. I think there’s probably a sense of trying to protect someone that you can’t protect anymore. Like it’s been and gone. And it has this this darkness and empathy to it. I think that definitely travels through a lot of my lyrics and a lot of the way the songs I write feel, hopefully.

Baltin: That’s so interesting how you put it there, trying to protect somebody you can’t protect. What is it that you’re trying to tell that self now?

Hemmings: I’m not sure. I think it’s in the songs that I write. I’m still trying to figure that out, I suppose [laughter]. I’m trying to dissect it a little bit. I like to fully understand things and some things are very difficult to understand, especially the inner psyche. Trying to figure out why I am the way I am now and go through mistakes that I’ve made, and how do you write those wrongs and move forward and not have all this emotional baggage, I think is what’s trying to be done. That’ll probably go on forever. It’s an ever evolving, changing thing. I can imagine 10 years, we sit down again, and I’ve written a bunch of songs with the band and for myself there’ll still be a need to figure things out. We’re humans just fumbling around trying to figure s**t out.

Baltin: Who were those artists who first helped you figure things out about yourself through their music?

Hemmings: I grew up on a lot of INXS, AC/DC, Cold Chisel, very working-class Australian music. INXS is slightly less working class, but it still is to me. I feel like that was my intro to songwriters and people making music. As I got older, as you said, you try and make your own path. It was a lot of punk emo things. It took me a while to get to The Beatles and The Verves of the world, these things where I could fully take in full rounded human emotions. I feel like I was a bit of a late bloomer on that, even though I’d heard the songs and stuff. But trying to think of the first one that did it at the time, I just was trying to replicate how to play guitar well. Some of the Cold Chisel stuff, was a big one. Have you ever heard of the Australian band Powderfinger? Some of those songs I heard, “These Days” and “My Happiness,” that was like one of the first, it’s such an Australian reference. It was like, “This is a person going through something and they’re putting it down.” “These Days” blew my mind when I was a kid. I was like, “This is so good and so earnest.”

Baltin: Talk about having the dual outlets of 5 Seconds of Summer and then getting to write very different stuff as a solo artist. I knew Chris Cornell for years, huge fan and I think he’s like a benchmark for having Soundgarden and Audioslave, but wanting to be Tom Waits and Neil Young as a solo artist.

Hemmings: It’s extremely satisfying. I’m glad you brought up Chris Cornell because that’s a great example of someone doing it all. It is a hard thing for people to wrap their heads around in a newer age space where they’re like, “Why are you doing solo things if you have the band?” For me, they feed each other. I love being in the band, making these big pop rock anthem-y songs and getting out on stage and being that character, I love it so much. But I think for me to be able to do that I also need to have another creative outlet. For me, at the moment, it’s writing songs on my own and having that challenge of crafting something sonically that pleases just me. It’s so rewarding and it’s such a privilege to be able to have that. I’m glad you see it that way, cause it obviously means a lot to me, it takes a lot to get it over the finish line. It creates a lot of extra work for me, but it makes me feel much more well-rounded as a songwriter. I want to grow as a songwriter and be the best I can be. I think I can do that with the band, obviously, but it just would grow in the confines of a band, which is great. But I also want to be able to try it on my own and be like, “What can I do on my own?” That helps me understand who I am so I can be better in the band. So, for me, they work hand in hand.

Baltin: Do you feel like the solo side allows you to explore a completely different thing from 5 Seconds of Summer?

Hemmings: Yeah, and I think it makes it more of a joy to be in the band. We’ve been going for a minute, it’s 12 years. I met them when I was 14 years old. The band is like at a stature level where I can do that, and it’s okay. I love going in and making band stuff and thinking, “How do I get an arena full of people to lose their minds?” That’s also satisfying. I feel like I have something to say on my own as an artist, so I’ve got to chase that.