The following is a transcript of an interview with House Appropriations Committee Chairman Rep. Tom Cole, R-Oklahoma, that aired on April 21, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Oklahoma Republican Congressman Tom Cole. Good morning.
REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you were the lead sponsor of the Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan bills. And I know that was a big decision for the speaker to make the vote. The Polish prime minister tweeted: “Speaker Johnson, thank you. Better late than too late. And I hope it's not too late for Ukraine.” How do you measure the cost of inaction over the past six months?
REP. COLE: Well, first of all, the Senate only passed the bill 65 days ago. And it's not like the speaker doesn't have other things to do. I had to do all the credits.
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was an emergency: they were running out of ammunition.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: Well, again, this administration waited a while, the Senate took a while, and we had other matters going on, but it was done and it was done in a bipartisan way. He showed incredible leadership. And frankly, he gave us a rule that is the structure in which we considered all these different issues where each member could vote any way they wanted on each issue. This was not the case in the Senate. I think that actually when they follow the lead that we have, you're going to see more support for Ukraine than we probably saw in the original vote.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But to be fair, we're not talking about a political debate, a debate that doesn't have a direct impact on the battlefield. I mean, the Supreme Allied Commander testified before Congress on April 10, the Ukrainians are being outgunned by the Russian side five to one because of this debate. the delay
REP. COLE: Sorry, democracy is kind of a messy business. And the reality is that it is done. So he moved. It happened in a very bipartisan way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: More Republicans voted against it than for it.
REP. COLE: Well, look, it's an even split. And frankly, if you really want to look at staunch Republican opposition, go to the re-engagement motion or look at the bill to defund Ukraine. It's two to one, actually three to one on the recommitment motion. This is politics, there is a “vote no, hope yes” crowd in every caucus. I can go down to that list and tell you that the member just said, OK, you've got the votes, you don't need me. So I think there is…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It would be a fun game. I would take some names off this list.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: It's politics. Well, I'm not critical of anyone; the reality is that we have overwhelming bipartisan support for every part of this package. It was structured in a way that allowed members to vote, make the points they wanted to make and, frankly, if they need political cover, do it, but it was done. So I'm pretty proud of the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk to you more on the other side of this break. But you're just in there, acknowledging when you say “vote no, I hope so” that there were Republicans who had to vote no. Because of political pressure, and the struggle within your own party.
REP. COLE: No, they thought they had to. People –
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who wanted it to happen?
REP. COLE: Do you think nobody is making political calculations in the US Senate or the administration? Welcome to American politics. But the point is, look at the numbers. Look at the overwhelming bipartisan numbers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will…
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: Over and over
MARGARET BRENNAN:– on the other side of that break. stayed here We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face The Nation. We'd like to continue our conversation now with Oklahoma Republican Congressman Tom Cole. Member, before the break, we have been talking about this vote that the House took yesterday to demonstrate the package of 95 billion dollars. There was a decision here for President Johnson that was important, it basically put his job on the line. As we know, there is this movement among conservatives in the House led by Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene to try to oust him from power, in part because of this Ukraine aid bill. Do you think this is a real threat to his leadership?
REP. COLE: Well, I take anything seriously. But no, I don't. Look, I think it's a relatively small number of Republican members, frankly, as it was with McCarthy, there were only eight people. But the point is, I don't think there is a unified Democratic support, but a unified Democratic support. To remove the speaker. I think both sides have now seen how dangerous this irresponsible thing is. And frankly, I think it's unlikely that the Democrats who were supporting Ukraine are not as likely to support Israel as we would have liked, but they do support Ukraine. I think it's unlikely they'll remove the speaker with this, although to be fair they did remove McCarthy after he did what he asked of them, which was to keep the government funded. But again, I don't think that's going to happen in this case, but if someone wants to do it, it's within the rules and they can do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
But what you're saying is that the Democrats, you trust, will protect Speaker Johnson from being one, since they wouldn't vote to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. COLE: I don't think you'd lose many Republicans. We didn't lose many Republicans under McCarthy. So it doesn't take many Democrats not to vote or oppose it. And no, frankly, I don't think we would lose the same number of Republicans that we lost under Kevin McCarthy. I think even people who disagree with the president…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It wouldn't reach eight Republicans, they reached three…
REP. COLE: I don't think so…
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Marjorie Taylor Greene–
(End crosstalk)
REP. COLE: — look, I — I think a lot of people like the speaker, that they respect him, even when they don't agree with him. They know he is honest. It's a straight shooter. They also got a taste of what it's like to be without a speaker for three weeks. I don't think they want that again, I certainly don't think they want it close to an election.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former Speaker Gingrich said, “The demons that Matt Gaetz unleashed by going after Kevin McCarthy are still out there. You can't govern by shooting yourself in the head every day.” How does Speaker Johnson get anything done?
REP. COLE: Well, first of all, he's just done a lot of things. He has managed to pass all the appropriations bills. He has passed FISA, he has only achieved this consequence…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: But he has to rely on the Democratic votes, which members of his own party have criticized him for.
REP. COLE: –so it's actually been, you know- it's- it's fine, it's fine. I mean, honestly, no.
(End crosstalk)
REP. COLE: Every appropriations bill is bipartisan at the end of the day, that's just how they work. So most of these, and something like FISA, should be bipartisan. In fact, I think it's, you know, empowered the center and marginalized the extremes on each side. Now, is there any risk with this? For sure. But the point is that he has done a lot. I think people admire him. They really like it. Everyone respects him. All the Republicans voted for him. I don't think anyone else could have done that at the time except Mike Johnson. So the goodwill deposit is huge. I think it's a lot stronger than people seem to think. And I think he's shown that with what's happened.
MARGARET BRENNAN: If first of all, do you think the Republicans after November will have the majority, and if so, could he be re-elected?
REP. COLE: Yes, because I think we're likely to win the presidency. I think this is pretty simple. I used to do politics for a living, I guess I still do. But the reality is that, whoever wins the presidency, you will probably take the House. It's close enough that that probably makes a difference. I think we will win. So I think we will have the House.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman, nice to have you here…
REP. COLE: Great privilege. Thanks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — In person, we'll be right back.
